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September 03, 2011

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Omar Bryant

"I guess winning a war means you automatically get to denigrate the people who have lived on the land for a couple of thousand years. Or, if you brought them in as slaves then obviously they weren't completely human, even as those "slaves" were torn away from their families who had thousands of years of history."

Of course this has always been the case throughout most of earth's history. However I'm reminded of what King said in his final speech:

"All we say to America is, "Be true to what you said on paper.If I lived in China or even Russia, or any totalitarian country, maybe I could understand some of these illegal injunctions. .....But somewhere I read of the freedom of assembly. Somewhere I read of the freedom of speech. Somewhere I read of the freedom of press. Somewhere I read that the greatness of America is the right to protest for rights."

Despite how bad things are right now, the real reason things haven't changed is because on the whole most white Americans really aren't doing all that badly. The median income for the average white adult is some twenty times greater than the average black adult. For black males in some communities the level of unemployment are over 40%. If conditions for whites were to ever deteriorate to anything approaching this (and it just well might) there would be a war in the streets. King's dream has been sterilized to represent the taking down of a few "whites only" signs and busing a few kids across town, to which America can tout it's "triumph over inequality".

In many ways-despite the election of a black president (and perhaps in some ways because of it)-race relations have actually gone backwards. We've segregated ourselves from one another, in some ways both races are to blame for this but of course whites have so much more say. Take for example the "whitewashing" of American television. From roughly the mid-seventies through the 80's there were always a significant number of shows that depicted an integrated America ("Cosby Show", "The Jefferson's", "Good-Times" etc.). It seems that as the number of cable channels grew it was easy to throw the "ethnic programming" on to a few networks (i.e BET,U.P.N) and be done with it.

Now, if you are not Caucasian, somewhere between 18-40 and attractive, forget it. You are basically nowhere to be seen on American network television (with the exception of pro-sports and the unpaid mercenary athletes in college sports). This might seem insignificant, but television is where most Americans go to "get away" for a little while and entertain themselves. If we cannot even do that collectively what do we actually have to start with.

Roger W. Norman

Wow, great reply.

Actually, there are a lot of "things" that represent another level of discrimination as you represent, one being the use of black couples in commercials, which is good because it's work, but you almost never see an integrated couple. This creates the idea that all things are just fine with "the blacks" as Donald Trump said, but it just doesn't ring true.

In terms of electing a black President, I think that was a really great day for the country, but a very bad day for millions of people who thought that would bring about positive change. And I'm somewhat concerned that I told my wife (she's black and says so) to vote for Obama rather than Hillary because I truly believed he would bring about some real change, but in terms of the hearts and minds of the people about race.

It didn't, as you allude to, but rather brought back a 50 year old schism of segregation. I've written about this within the past 3 years on this blog, so I'm not going to write it again.

I really do appreciate your comments and I hope that I've brought a little different perspective to the conversation.

Roger

Bill Perkins

I agree that black Americans have sacrificed enough...and that it is continuing. I also believe the primary challenge being faced by the black community, the Hispanic community, and increasingly the white community is the destruction of the family. The majority of American children are now born out of wedlock.

We can argue about what's caused this, and I'm not trying to push the family structure as a religious issue, and I don't care whether the parents are both male, female or hetero, although I believe the latter to be better for children. Nevertheless, family social and financial stability lead to better educated and socially conscious offspring who can help preserve and even elevate the working and professional classes.

In my view those values were there in the WWI and WWII generations, both black and white, but since have been denigrated in the perversion of my boomer generation to the point of extinction in some communities. The result is an almost unmanageable burden on single mothers. There are housing complexes in some communities now designed for single grandmothers who are doing their best to raise their grandchildren.

What are your ideas on how to address this issue?

Roger W. Norman

I'm sorry Bill, but where can I reference this statistic that I've never heard before. A Majority of children born out of wedlock seems to be a bit excessive.

As far as your beliefs, well, they are your beliefs, but I'm not certain just how much that represents. I don't remember any factors that have been presented which suggest children within same sex living situations are the cause for any child becoming abnormal. I mean, ignore the extremes, which may have many other causes, and courts don't seem to have a problem with gays or lesbians adopting children, unless it is a problem with the specific people, which takes it out of the range of a gay or lesbian couple.

As far as the "values" represented, most of it was intolerance, not real "values". Gays (in particular) were prosecuted as if they were something other than human. I don't recall any particular lesbian prosecutions primarily because men don't mind two woman having sex. They just mind two men having sex.

No, there is a disconnect between the concept of the first half of the 20th century and the second half, mostly based on bias and prejudicial attitudes, not values.

Of course, your view of values and mine might be different. My concept of values is that I don't impose my thoughts or preferences on other people, whilst a lot of others think their values are those which should be followed because they are American values.

To me, values are of a personal nature and the way that I treat my family and my friends. When others wish to talk at me about values, I assume they mean their values and what I should be doing based on their assessments. Sorry, not good enough.

If I'm expected to be responsible for my actions, then my values aren't up for grabs. It then becomes some outside force that tries to make my actions less than the values they choose to support.

Sorry, but not really an important part of my life. My values are mine, not up to interpretation and certainly not up to public debate. Too bad most of America only applauds values they think are important, even though the concept is that everyone has a right to their own viewpoints.

Gee, reminds me of little communities hardly able to make ends meet in New England during the 1600s and witch hunts. Was that values?

Roger

cheap jerseys

She's right, in each and every aspect that I can perceive. Now I'm not going to go through a lot of "African-American" stuff here because we're talking about Americans who happen, by virtue of birth and through no choice of their own, are black. And even by saying that I'm somewhat separating myself from "them", but I'm not. I'm differentiating between my being a white American and her being a black American. Plain and simple. She has an African heritage, I have a European heritage, but we are both Americans.

Bill Perkins

Roger, you respond to the complete and ludicrous distortion of fact by Omar with "Wow,great reply." but nit and go off on unrelated rants regarding someone who you perceive as disagreeing with you. According to the U.S. Census special report in 2006, which is the most recent report that popped up in about .013 seconds, the median income of Caucasians was $50,673 versus $31,969 for blacks, which is 59% more for whites. Not "20 times" or 2000% more. The interesting part, though, is that this statistic actually improved with respect to black income from a 67% spread in 1975. So blacks are actually closing the income gap based on those statistics. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104552.html

According to the CDC National Vital Statistics Report for 2008 that was released last December, the birth rate outside marriage is 40.6%, which five years earlier was 34%. What it is for 2011, I don't know, but I would presume to be a little higher. Still not a majority, so I overstated it somewhat. But not 2000%. For blacks, it was 72%, Hispanic was 53%, and for non-hispanic whites, 29%. If I had the numbers for the 1950, for example, I believe all these numbers would be much much less.

I wasn't trying to address values, which you enjoy discussing. My observation, though, and practical experience after living some 63 years, is that kids have more financial and social advantages in stable two-parent homes, ignoring the extremes as you suggest. I therefore believe that if more children were raised in such homes--never mind their race, cause it affects all races--the employment and the income gap would close more quickly than the trickle the above stats suggest.

I'm simply suggesting you consider the root causes of the disparity today in unemployment rates among the races. Sure, prejudice and racism still exist, but they are a greatly declining issue with each generation, and that takes time. Reverend King and other black leaders have greatly sped up that process during my lifetime. The greater problem today from my view is preparing minority children to compete for jobs. Women today, certainly white and black, are stepping up and taking charge because the men won't. Somehow we have to convince young men of their role and responsibility. They need male mentors, ideally their fathers. How many generations will it take for that to turn around?


Roger W. Norman

Tomorrow Bill.

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